Showing posts with label trade scenarios. Show all posts
Showing posts with label trade scenarios. Show all posts

Friday, 22 August 2008

Manny v. Holliday?


In addition to being a cyborg sent back from the future to kill John Connor while hitting .340 for the Rockies on a yearly basis, Matt Holliday is a Big Scary Bat that's probably going to be on the trading block this winter as our confrere at DJF, Parkes, so kindly brought to our attention the other day.

We've got the ball rolling about on off-season roster moves and you the fans want to talk about this, so let's talk about this...

Some factoids, in bullet points:

* Holliday is under contract for 2009 at the modest price of $13.5 million, which might not even be enough to bring in one of the "B" DHs like Jim Thome or Jason Giambi this offseason

* Scott Boras is Holliday's agent and they will be looking for a "franchise player"-type deal the Jays cannot afford (because of Vernon Wells...), so it's one and out if he is acquired via trade

* Holliday, 29 to start next season, has been OPS-ing well over .900 on the road this year for those who dismiss him as a Coors' Field creation. His cumulative OPS+, park neutral, is about 150 over the past three years. That translates into Canadian.

* He's also probably the most slam dunk Type A potential free agent you can imagine, and if he walks at the end of 2009, there will be sweet compensatory draft picks. Sweeter than the caramel at the centre of a Skor bar.

* Travis Snider might be ready for spring 2009, but will almost certainly be a more polished hitter after a full year at AAA, pencilled in for full-time ML duties in 2010

Do you see where I'm going with this? While it's "only cash" to sign a free agent DH, you do end up giving up a compensatory draft pick along with laying your money on the table. And let's not forget that the sum you pay out for a free agent is going to be millions in excess of the cost of Holliday... for an inferior hitter who can't play defense, but that's another argument. So you do lose "something" by going with a free agent rather than trade.

If you do trade for Holliday instead you don't lose the pick in addition to gaining another one when he walks at the end of the year. You do lose prospects in the trade package that brings him in, but you'd at least be setting yourself up nicely to bring in equivilant talent in the next draft.

What would the Rockies be looking for as a trade package? Reasonable expectations would probably be something along the lines of what Pirates' GM Neal Huntington got in return for Jason Bay at the deadline. I know Bay's not the same calibre of hitter as Holliday, but he was controllable for 1 years + 2 months at the time of the deal whereas it's only one year for Holliday. Those prospects who went to Steeltown again? Craig Hansen, Brandon Moss, Andy Laroche, and Bryan Morris.

Laroche was/is a blue chipper who became the Buc's starting third baseman, Hansen is a non-descript reliever who has shown little of note in 2+ partial seasons in the bigs, Brandon Moss is looking like a more-than-serviceable 4th OF (no offense there, you get plenty of ABs in that role in the NL), and Morris is a 21-year-old reliever in A ball whose a long way off. Essentially what you're talking about here is a 4 for 1 prospect package made up of one "A" level talent and 3 guys you'd be charitable to call Bs.

The Rox will be impolitely rebuffed if they ask for Travis Snider, so there's no point even mentioning him here. I think I'd also assume the Lind is off table as well after earning himself a permament spot on the 25-man roster.

The Rox greatest need for 2009 is, of course, pitching, while they'd probably also like to upgrade at 2B and would likely be interested in an OF to take Holliday's place. I would also note that their only reliable lefty in the pen, Brian Fuentes, is likely to depart via free agency. A guy like Brian Tallet would not be useless to them.

I'd reckon that if they really want to seriously enter into negotiations with the Rockies on Holliday, the Jays have to be willing to entertain a package centred around either Scott Campbell or Brett Cecil. Those are real, legitimate blue chippers and you're not going to reel in an elite talent like Holliday without sacrificing one of them. The other 3 names you add on are interchangeable, but we could live without arms like Davis Romero, Brad Mills, or pretty much any other pitcher in the system. Major leaguers Jason Frasor and Brian Tallet are not useless, though they're going to be redundant here in 2009.

You might be thinking that Cecil or Campbell + is just too much to stomach for one year of Matt Holliday, and if that's your opinion you're entitled to it. I disagree. But keep in mind that Manny might well prove cost prohibitive (and he's 37 going into next year) and also ask yourself whether *declining, high-injury risk* sluggers like Giambi or Thome would even entertain the idea of coming to Toronto after what happened to Frank Thomas. Hell, the Mariners might even throw a wack of cash at Raul Ibanez to stick around, taking JP's favourite C-lister off the market.

Basically what I'm saying is that it's a big assumption that the most coveted free agent DHs are even signable and trade might be the only means of getting the bat that makes the Jays really and truly competive in 2009. Or you can just batten down the hatchs and wait for 2010. That's not a horrible idea, either.

Looking at the big picture, I'm not at all averse to making a major push for Holliday and would probably prefer that to seeking a FA solution. Personally, I think the risk/cost of going after one of the elderly free agent DHs is probably greater than that of selling off one of the organizations top 3 prospects and add-ons (who can be replaced with compensatory picks) for a year of Matt Holliday. The 60 point OPS+ boost out of the DH hole you get from a player of Holliday's calibre gives this offense a pulse and I don't feel as confident predicting the same level of production from Manny even, much less Thome or Giambi. And Holliday is cheaper, too, which leaves a bit of cash left over to splash out on a SS.

Also, we'd get a year of JaysTalk callers referring to Roy Holliday and Matt Halladay.

He who dares, wins, fellas.

-- Johnny Was

Saturday, 5 July 2008

Saturday Morningness

Since the DJFs were couragous enough to reveal their faces, I thought I might as well follow suit and post a photo of myself to satisfy your curiosity. There you have it, the shocking truth. The years have not been kind; I'm only 29 years old.

What did last night's stinker do for AJ Burnett's trade value or, more importantly, his quest for type A free agent status? Not much good, sadly. Still, we owe Burnett some gratitude for at least providing one story line worth talking about around the water cooler. Bob Elliot says the prospect-poor Phillies, lacking the pieces to obtain a CC Sabbathia or Joe Blanton/Rich Harden, have been most active in scouting Burnett. They'd love him in Philly, so let's hope this works out.

More rumours? If you were keen on seeing Burnett and Eckstein go to the Dodgers for something juicy, cool your jets. It seems Nedco has more interest in CC Sabbathia (a Cali dude they have the money to re-sign) and Pirates shortstop Jack Wilson. Now, everything changes if the Brewers are ready to give up Matt LaPorta for Sabbathia... Ken Rosenthal says it's likely CC gets moved before his start on Tuesday, so the runner up may well turn its attention our way.

It's not like I'm totally disengaging from the Jays emotionally (as I have done with the Leafs pretty much every year at Christmas time since the lockout), but there really wasn't much to write about yesterday. Even Wilner is finding it hard to conceal his disappointment/boredom/contempt.

Blair truly nailed everything I've been trying to say about why JP must be strung up here and now in surveying the terrain to find that this is the year when a surprise team could sneak into the playoffs, so just read his piece, s'il vous plait.

Closer to a playoff spot than the Jays (10 back in the Wild Card)?

Baltimore Orioles: 6 back in the Wild Card. What?

Pittsburgh Pirates: 7.5 back in the Wild Card.

San Francisco Giants: 5 back in the NL West.

San Diego Padres: 9 back in the NL West with a .391 winning percentage. What in the fuck? (Anyone know when/whether the next season of Trailer Park Boys comes out?)

And the Kansas City Fucking Royals, 10.5 back in the AL Central, just miss the list.

There you have it.

The cavalacade of factoids continues...

Last night Sportsnet flashed a graphic between ads for autotrader.ca showing that the 2008 Jays are 41 homeruns behind their total at this point last year (101-60), and it got me to thinking. Matt Stairs and Vernon Wells currently share the team lead with 8 HR at 87 games into the season, making it entirely possible that no one on the team hits 20 this year.

When was the last time that happened? Ah, that would be strike-shortened 1981, when John Mayberry lead the team with 17. This indignity has only happened once in club history over a full season, that being the inaugural season of 1977, when aging DH Ron Fairly came up just short with 19. Long ball-digging chicks cannot be impressed.

All in all, this must be taking quite the toll on die hards like us and stoking disinterest amongst the ever important "casual fan." A cursory look at the numbers show that the Jays are still drawing in the middle of the pack (7th of 14 in the AL) just as they were last year, but the raw numbers are down. This does not bode well for payroll, or for JP's continued employment for that matter, when the Rogers suits do their post-mortem in October.

I caught snippets of a few games yesterday and got to thinking about a few overlooked bats worth considering for next year. What if the Yankees declined Jason Giambi's $22 million club option for next year? There's a $5 million buyout there and he has been very productive this year, but I think he might be a good fit in TO if he came available. Manny Ramirez? His behaviour is becoming increasingly erratic (the high five catch, shoving an aged travelling secretary to the ground) and it's no lock the Bosox exercise his $20 million club option for next year.

Now, I'm not saying that either are worth bringing on board at anything approaching their current salaries (or for more than 1 year if possible), but it's not like we've got the $200 million or so necessary to reel in Mark Teixeira. You gotta get your power somewhere, folks.

Enjoy this wonderous Saturday and know that I love you all very much.

-- Johnny Was